Can definitely associate with this. When I wanted to leave the pentecostal church I went to the elders had a meeting and decided I needed a spiritual cleansing as I obviously had demons in me.
I'd had one of these 'exorcisms' before and while they were praying and summoning the demons out of me, I just thought how ridiculous it was and had to stop myself from laughing. Instead of laying hands on me they were actually applying force so I'd lose my balance. So I was doing my best to stay upright so they couldn't day they had 'beat the demon'.
Geez! If you had laughed, it would have been evidence of demonic manifestation for sure.
I’ve been in the brace-yourself-against-the pentecostal-preacher-who’s-trying-to-push-you-over-in-the-prayer-line situation before. I’ve also been in the falling-over-when-no-one-has-touched-you-in-the-prayer-line situation. That’s a strange thing to experience.
Very relatable experience. Thank you for sharing. It was a wake up call for me, from my own identity, to what it meant to be a Christian and who Jesus really was.
After the church I counseled imploded, I moved the counseling to my home. Not only did these folks have drug addiction, marital problems and suicidal teens, but they had no church. Ugh. I started a church. We had 54 that came to my barbq at 5 on Saturday. It was a good 2 years of good times healing and helping each other. Turning ashes into beauty is what I believe in. I’m proof. Experience teaches us what we truly believe. Have you an ashy story?
I definitely meant proper Christians, as in people who are part of mainstream protestant or Catholic Christianity in one of its manifold variations. In any religion, there are borders – sometimes fairly wide – and you can determine whether someone is inside or outside. I’ve moved outside.
When you are on the inside, there are narratives for people who are outside. These narratives can be coherent as long as you don’t venture outside the borders. People who move usually have stories that don’t fit what is understood to be the one true narrative. Because those people have what is understood to have an impossible story, they ‘don’t exist’.
I’ve experienced this assigning of ‘nonexistence’ from people who are proper Christians in every sense of the word – kind, loving, self-sacrificial, holding orthodox beliefs. It’s not that there is something wrong with them. It’s that they are inside the borders and their coherent story says I don’t exist.
I hope that’s a helpful clarification of what I was trying to say.
I think some part of me fights against this. But another part knows exactly what you are saying, yes. (And I experience this within my own--loving--family.) Richard Rohr, in explaining St Francis, says he was "on the inside of the outside"... but was still--proper--inside.
There are always a few people – Richard Rohr and St Francis among them – who see the wider world and stay on the inside while somehow managing to transcend the system that they are in. It’s not just religion. Yesterday, Christine was talking to a social worker who has done that very thing where she works.
Can definitely associate with this. When I wanted to leave the pentecostal church I went to the elders had a meeting and decided I needed a spiritual cleansing as I obviously had demons in me.
I'd had one of these 'exorcisms' before and while they were praying and summoning the demons out of me, I just thought how ridiculous it was and had to stop myself from laughing. Instead of laying hands on me they were actually applying force so I'd lose my balance. So I was doing my best to stay upright so they couldn't day they had 'beat the demon'.
Geez! If you had laughed, it would have been evidence of demonic manifestation for sure.
I’ve been in the brace-yourself-against-the pentecostal-preacher-who’s-trying-to-push-you-over-in-the-prayer-line situation before. I’ve also been in the falling-over-when-no-one-has-touched-you-in-the-prayer-line situation. That’s a strange thing to experience.
Very relatable experience. Thank you for sharing. It was a wake up call for me, from my own identity, to what it meant to be a Christian and who Jesus really was.
After the church I counseled imploded, I moved the counseling to my home. Not only did these folks have drug addiction, marital problems and suicidal teens, but they had no church. Ugh. I started a church. We had 54 that came to my barbq at 5 on Saturday. It was a good 2 years of good times healing and helping each other. Turning ashes into beauty is what I believe in. I’m proof. Experience teaches us what we truly believe. Have you an ashy story?
Line two: maybe "people who believe themselves to be proper Christians."
I definitely meant proper Christians, as in people who are part of mainstream protestant or Catholic Christianity in one of its manifold variations. In any religion, there are borders – sometimes fairly wide – and you can determine whether someone is inside or outside. I’ve moved outside.
When you are on the inside, there are narratives for people who are outside. These narratives can be coherent as long as you don’t venture outside the borders. People who move usually have stories that don’t fit what is understood to be the one true narrative. Because those people have what is understood to have an impossible story, they ‘don’t exist’.
I’ve experienced this assigning of ‘nonexistence’ from people who are proper Christians in every sense of the word – kind, loving, self-sacrificial, holding orthodox beliefs. It’s not that there is something wrong with them. It’s that they are inside the borders and their coherent story says I don’t exist.
I hope that’s a helpful clarification of what I was trying to say.
I think some part of me fights against this. But another part knows exactly what you are saying, yes. (And I experience this within my own--loving--family.) Richard Rohr, in explaining St Francis, says he was "on the inside of the outside"... but was still--proper--inside.
There are always a few people – Richard Rohr and St Francis among them – who see the wider world and stay on the inside while somehow managing to transcend the system that they are in. It’s not just religion. Yesterday, Christine was talking to a social worker who has done that very thing where she works.
And I saw it when I worked in the education system, in a small small number.